A year and a half ago I took up the banjo at 78. As a newbie I researched and decided on the Goodtime Special that came with resonator and was pleased at my decision. Deering has been wonderful in backing up their banjos and are great people. During the time I had been playing I took of the resonator, added a sponge between rod and head and added a Fiberskin head to soften the sound. I tended to gravitate to a softer, lower sound and decided to look for my ‘Dream Banjo’. Loved the Deering Hartford but a bit out of my financial range.  I started listening a lot and researching and finally heard a BanjoHangout member playing a banjo which sound I liked. I contacted him and was told it was made by Luke Mercier. Mr. Mercier has a very nice website and comes with impressive testimonials and being a BanjoHangout member himself I felt rather secure in having him build my banjo.

 I contacted Luke and explained that I had a budget of $1600 to $1800 and asked if he could build me a banjo with Dobson ring that had the qualities I heard but without any fancy embellishments that would take me over my budget. I told him I was wary as this would be the last banjo I would be buying and I did not want anything to go wrong. Luke assured me he could build the banjo for $1800. Decided on an open back, walnut neck and walnut rim for a mellower sound with capabilities to use both nylgut and steel strings. Looking at his banjo photos I noticed the 15, 17, and 19 fret dots missing. He said he does not usually put them on his banjos but if I wanted he would do so.

As his deadline for delivery approached he asked for more time and I gave him two more weeks. When the banjo arrived I noticed that the 15^th fret dot was on the 14^th fret. I called and told him he placed it in the wrong place and was informed that is what I asked. I checked my email and I admit I mistyped  the 15 into the 14. However I felt that he should have called to clarify the placement as it was unusual. His reply was that a lot of people request strange things. It was finally agreed that we would share the mailing costs and he would do a repair.

When the banjo arrived for the second time and I opened the package and my heart dropped when I noticed the fret markers did not line up under the strings and that the heel of the neck was off when meeting the rim, causing the neck to be misaligned as well as the frets (see photos). As the radius is 1/8” neck is off center at the heel it throws the neck off at the tuning head at least 1”. If the radius of the neck was even on both sides where it meets the rim it would swing counter clockwise and would align the fret markers properly to the strings. I debated calling Luke for a few weeks as I am instructed not to get excited or my blood pressure too high due to a medical condition. However I just could not justify the errors and keeping the banjo. I called Luke and he said he would return my money. When I sent the banjo back he said that since I had the banjo a while he would not return the money but would put it up for consignment and when sold would return the money. I could not forsee any one buying the banjo with the built in errors. Pressing Luke it was agreed that he would refund $1000 which was the best I could get in return. He did send the check but I still could not understand why I had to forfeit $800, have no banjo and being retired have to start saving for another year or two to purchase another banjo. I asked Luke for a additional rebate of $650 feeling the his cost of mailings was covered and he had the banjo to resell.

Luke’s reply.

Running a straight edge from the dowel stick end to the 3rd string groove of the nut, it shows that the neck is in proper alignment. The bridge is exactly centered to the body. The distance from the nut to the top fret is exactly 419 mm along both edges of the fingerboard. As previously mentioned, there is more wood on the bass side of the neck than on the treble side. When measuring from the -V- of the neck to the top of the 17th fret I get 46mm on the bass side and 44 mm on the treble side which makes up for the added width on the bass side.

The banjo plays perfectly in tune therefor the frets are not out of scale. As for the fret dots, I admit that they are a little off with the travelling pattern of the strings but this is a result of centering them to the overall fingerboard widths at their given placements. If I were to alter the alignment of the neck, this would force the bridge off center to the body. There are flaws with the banjo but they are visual rather than structural. These were likely a result of trying making a banjo within your given budget.

I was taken aback by my budget as being the problem in his making the banjo incorrectly. I then suggested to settle the matter and I would post on the banjohangout.org, not use his name, and ask the group to weigh in. If the consensus was that the builder was at fault he would refund my additional $650. If they sided with the banjo builder I would just accept the decision and go my own way.

Lukes reply.

Dear Richard,

I feel that while members of the BHO and other such forums are often experienced and knowledgeable about banjos, they should not be responsible for resolving an issue that is, as far as I can see a closed case.

I’ve already paid you a refund of $1,000.00 USD on a banjo commission/transaction that was non-refundable to begin with.  Understand how you must be feeling, having lost out, however when commissioning a work from a maker, it is generally understood that you have a certain time frame (usually 30 days but in some cases as little as 48 hours) in which to returnfor full refund. Please accept my sincere apologies but while you may state your case on a public forum I cannot allow the comments to dictate any further action on my part and I would prefer that this was not put up for public comment.

I have given this serious consideration and finally decided to post on Banjohangout.org and ClassicBanjo and hopefully I can prevent him doing this to someone else. I can understand someone making a mistake but they surely should stand by their work.

Would love to hear your opinion.

Upper fret/string misalignment

Lower fret/string misalignment

Neck misalignment

Sympathies to you - assuming the photo is unretouched, that's crap workmanship I would not accept from any 3rd rate repairer here in NZ. let alone any reputable US bulder. IMHO Luke should refund in full and apologise for such inept work!

From the pics posted, it certainly appears that the builder failed to align a simple dot inlay pattern. If he wants to be accepted as reputable , he needs to protect his reputation by standing behind his work. Good Luck to you.

Something is definitely wrong with that banjo. I've never seen such a large gap between the neck edge and the 5th string.

Can you post a high-res photo of the entire banjo, shot straight on? I think that would be helpful in identifying the extent of the problem.

I don't like pass judgment on an instrument unless I have it in hand.  I would take it to a good local repair tech and see if he felt anything could be done.  It might not be as hard to correct as it seems.  I am sorely tempted to throw out a few theories, but this seems to be a case where we're being asked to pass judgment and so I'm going to bite my tongue.  

I was ready to post on the classic banjo Ning forum when your post vanished...... ; I think these are only details which add charm to a hand made 'banjo ; if the woods are beautiful , sound good etc , you have to judge on the whole work ; I would do like this if i had the bj in my hands , Luke has a good feedback ;
I noticed in most of the old banjos ( hand made ) the heads ( not vellum ) are not symetric , and i think it really add charm to the instrument ; nothing more beautiful that an instrument with small " defects "

Edited by - marc.dalmasso on 02/12/2012 13:22:06

The neck is machined wrong. All the strings are off to one side. It is amazing these days how no one wants to say how it is. That banjo isn't worth a nickel. There are many people out there today claiming to be an expert, only to show they don't know what they are doing. This guy has no business taking money for any of his work

Without an in-person evaluation, it's hard to judge the actual instrument.  There are statements made here that aren't necessarily factual, as in the dots being installed in the wrong positions.  The five string neck is asymmetrical by nature, and as such you have to pick SOMETHING that isn't going to be "centered" with outher elements of the design.  It looks like the lower dots were positioned to be more or less in the center of the board thereby making them off-center with the strings.

It does appear that the heel cut is not cut to correctly skew the neck so the strings are centered over the neck at the heel.  It's hard to believe anyone with Luke's reputation would be that far off, though.  Without seeing the rest of the pot at the same time I could just as easily think that the bridge was pushed out of alignment before the photo.  A corrected heel cut might be in order, but it doesn't make the rest of an otherwise fine instrument "not worth a nickel".  I can tell you that I've personally seen another banjo from a "reputable, well-respected top maker" that had a heel cut that was substantially off.  It's one of the hardest things to do correctly and it's easy to error slightly, although this APPEARS to be excessive.  Again, I wouldn't pass judgement on this builder without seeing it for myself.  I once witnessed the results of overzealous forum-bashing on Andy DePaule at Luthier's Supply, who is the sweetest, most unassuming guy that you could ever meet.

Something's rotten in Denmark.

Looks like something I made.

I leamed awhile ago not to argue. Folks just get defensive (including me). I listen to them, the complaints and problems, then I ask:

What can I do, what do you want me to do, to make this right?

They almost never know for sure. I offer money back, no questions need a reply. Several times I sent a refund check and told them to also keep the banjo -free- but to never call or email me again.

This unfortunate, everyone is unhappy, but it is a fairly common human situation.

Edited by - banjobart on 02/12/2012 18:15:20

Rudy's point about the bridge is well-taken, and it should also be noted that we can't see the tailpiece, which could also be out of whack.  I have no fear of saying how it is, but I just don't think it is wise nor is there anything to be gained by drawing harsh conclusions without all of the facts.  

Again, I think a good tech could probably remedy this situation.  The builder has already refunded $1,000 of the purchase price, and  for far less than that you could take it to Elderly Instruments, have them make it perfect, and you'd still be money ahead.

From three pics it is not wise , I think , to evaluate the buyer, the builder, or the banjo.

However, having said this,  smart business sense says, make the customer happy !  Do whatever it takes including refund the buying price .  Eat the postage if necessary.  One loss of $$ for a job is not likely to break anyone's business.  BUT one very unhappy customer giving you very negative advertising will cost you MUCH more than was made on the job.

There are poor craftsman and poor customers.

I do not make banjos for sale, but I do do woodturnings, and my basic principal is--if you want a change in the job and it is possible, you get it.  If you want your money back , then you get it cheerfully such that you have no loss from the transaction--I may choose to not do business with you again, but you will have no loss in a transaction with me.

If the craftsmanship is top shelf, these situations will be RARE, -------but not unheard of! 

These are sad situations since nobody wins.

ken

Mountain Goat is correct. The heel is machined wrong. The dowel needs to be removed, the heel recut and a new dowel installed.

If you look carefully at the photos you will see the distance between the last fret and the tension hoop is slightly longer on the left which has caused the neck to angle to the right. This was a problem in the first couple banjos I built. A small mistake has big consequences.

A banjo in the shape its in would not have left my shop....the neck maybe able to be corrected (at his expence ,not yours) but thats not going to line up the dot thats off center, its not that hard to get the dots to line up (straight edge) maybe it sounds good but for what you paid it should look good to!!
harrisonbanjos.com

bhniko

Read a post in this same form titled A trip to Arthur Hatfield's for banjo repair.

See how a real banjo builder does business. I would not put up with the c...p you received. No banjo, out $800 dollars and a lot of grief, my blood pressure would be off the chart. I'm 66 and just started back just like you and bought a banjo from Arthur and had nothing but the best service.

Just like you should receive for your hard earned money.

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjobart

Looks like something I made.

I leamed awhile ago not to argue. Folks just get defensive (including me). I listen to them, the complaints and problems, then I ask:

What can I do, what do you want me to do, to make this right?

They almost never know for sure. I offer money back, no questions need a reply. Several times I sent a refund check and told them to also keep the banjo -free- but to never call or email me again.

This unfortunate, everyone is unhappy, but it is a fairly common human situation.

---

Bart has it right.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mhickler

Mountain Goat is correct. The heel is machined wrong. The dowel needs to be removed, the heel recut and a new dowel installed.

If you look carefully at the photos you will see the distance between the last fret and the tension hoop is slightly longer on the left which has caused the neck to angle to the right. This was a problem in the first couple banjos I built. A small mistake has big consequences.

---

Mark is also correct.

To all who have responded....THANKS.

To clarify things the bridge was not pushed to the side. When the heel was machined wrong it threw the entire neck and frets out of alignment. It surprised me that the 1/8" difference in the heel cut threw out the tuning side of the neck so far off. Take a 30" stick and at the heell move one edge of the neck 1/8" to square it up and you will be amazed how far the neck moves at the peg tuning end.  If the retaining ring was not slotted to accept the neck the neck could have possibly slid to the left therefore aligning the strings over the dots. I would hope that all of you would recognize that I have seen many banjos and never seen one built so poorly. It is said that one can pop the banjo head if the retaining hooks are tightened to hard. This banjo retaining hooks maxed out just at the point where the banjo head started to be taught and playable. The head could not be tightened any more as nuts had bottomed out and could not be tightened any more.  I had to chuckle at one comment that hand bullt banjos with defects have charm. I wonder if the attitude would be the same if they were on the receiving end.

Evidently Luke is willing to harm his reputation for 6 pieces of silver ($650) which I feel he owes me. I am just not sure how anyone could live with him self...but evidently he can. All I can hope is that my post can prevent Luke doing this to someone else. It is also a shame that he hurts small banjo builders who are trying to establish themselves.

Anyway....thanks to all of you...and hope all your picking improves two fold (and even more), your song writing is more prolific and your banjo playing posts multiply.

I am so sorry for the anguish you are experiencing because of this!

I think you have done exactly what should have been done....bringing this to a public forum. I also think the this maker's behavior is atrocius and unacceptable and ALL of your money should be refunded to you.

I call on Mr. Mercier to return the money due you, mistakes made or not. That would be excellent customer service. As a community we should be on the side of doing the right thing. Let's keep the pressure on until this problem is corrected.

Point taken Bart and Mark but even if you were ever capable of messing up as badly as this - which I really doubt - you guys would never have sent it out to a paying customer. As you both seem to realise it's a matter of trust. 

Full refund is called for.

Greg

It wouldn't surprise me if Luke at some point re-cuts the heel. and sells that banjo again. 

We all look at the small builders as fine craftsmen who build for the love of doing it, and the profit is almost secondary.  Unfortunately though, the smaller the builders business, the more of a "boutique builder" they are, the fewer recourse options you end up with.  The small the builder, the more you have to trust them.  It doesn't seem to have worked out in this case.

Tim

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim13
It wouldn't surprise me if Luke at some point re-cuts the heel. and sells that banjo again. 

---

Which leads me to suggest this alternative solution: 

Bhniko: perhaps you should send the refund back to Luke and re-take ownership of the banjo. Then take the banjo to any of the skilled luthiers accessible here and have the heel recut.  That's got to be a much less expensive repair than the amount you're currently out.

Yes, in an ideal world, Luke would see that there's something wrong at the end of the neck and fix it at his expense. But we don't live in an ideal world. So instead of being out $800 and having no banjo, get the banjo back and pay the little that it cost for someone else to make right.

My thanks again for all of your comments. In final analysis the banjo was not worth keeping and trying to correct as it was poorly built. Probably could have done batter myself with parts from StewMac. Since there was no contract stating a non refundable deposit and even if there was there is no excuse for Luke to refuse to stand behind his craftsmanship. If the banjo was so wonderful he could have sold it through his website and returned my money...but he knows what is bad is bad and will not sell. But again I now know better and will not buy another banjo unless it is in my hands to play or guaranteed to be returnable 

The good side is I still have and like my Deering Goodtime Special, have high regards for all you guys out there and am proud to be part of the group.

Richard

If I read this correctly, you're out $800, AND the banjo???

Thats not right.

Get the banjo from him .. messed up or not. Have it fixed .. and I'm going to wager you'd be able to get it done for free either here on the BHO, or off site. I'd be happy to give you a hand if possible.

The other option is to get the pot portion for your $800 and let him keep the neck...and put the $1000 towards a new neck. Again, I could speak to friends at Recording King and see about a neck.

Either way, you need to have something in your hands for the $88 out of your pocket.

If your story is the truth.....Luke owes you $800 and an apology. I highly recommend Colin Vance at Vance Banjos - he built me an amazing banjo with a Dobson ring.

Originally posted by bhniko

"Probably could have done batter myself with parts from StewMac."

Which is exactly why I do just that...I highly encourage folks to make their own banjos if so inclined, for the price this gentleman paid for one banjo, I could have built about 3...

Sad tale, wonder why the banjo that prompted you to buy from this maker came out so sounding and playing so good and yours came out so bad...that is kind of puzzling to me...

One I made, Imperial Electric inspired	RG orig formica fretless	Superbo Formica Fretless	RG original, repro neck on Vegaphone s/n 81142 pot
RG original 3	A RG original 1